Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

05/04/2005 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 71 OIL& GAS EXPLORATION CREDIT & LEASE TERMS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ HB 26 SHORT-TERM COM FISHING CREWMEMBER LICENSE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ HB 286 VALUE OF ROYALTY ON GAS PRODUCTION TELECONFERENCED
Moved SCS HB 286(RES) Out of Committee
    CSHB  26(FIN)-SHORT-TERM COM FISHING CREWMEMBER LICENSE                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER announced CSHB 26(FIN) to be up for consideration.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:37:06 PM                                                                                                                    
ADAM  BERG,   staff  to   Representative  Carl   Moses,  sponsor,                                                               
explained that  CSHB 26(FIN) allows  the purchase of  a seven-day                                                               
commercial fishing crew  member license for $30.  The only option                                                               
available now  for crew  members is an  annual license,  which is                                                               
$60 for residents and $180 for non-residents.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The reason for introducing the bill  is to try to give commercial                                                               
fishermen  more  opportunities  to  earn  a  living  by  charging                                                               
tourists  to  participate  hands-on in  the  commercial  fishery.                                                               
Right  now  they  can  only observe.  Secondly,  it  would  allow                                                               
commercial   fishermen  temporary   short-term   help,  such   as                                                               
relatives and friends, at a lower cost.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:38:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON joined the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:39:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GUESS joined the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  DYSON  said  the  Coast Guard  Auxiliary  asked  him  if                                                               
conformity  with the  Code of  Federal Regulations  (CFR) 46  had                                                               
been discussed.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BERG   replied  that  the  Juneau   Charter  Boat  Operators                                                               
Association asked that  question of Sue Jorgenson  with the Coast                                                               
Guard,  and  she   responded  if  an  individual   pays  for  the                                                               
opportunity  to  go out  fishing  on  a commercial  vessel,  that                                                               
vessel is  then considered a  vessel for  hire and would  have to                                                               
follow the  same Coast  Guard rules  that charter  boat operators                                                               
follow now.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DYSON  asked if  this isn't a  backdoor way  around Coast                                                               
Guard licensing procedure.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BERG replied that is correct.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:41:36 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON asked  if this bill would have  any implications on                                                               
the Fishermen's Fund.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN joined the committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BERG  replied that  an  amendment  was offered  saying  that                                                               
short-term crewmembers  aren't allowed any type  of compensation.                                                               
Currently, 39  percent of the  first $60  of any license  goes to                                                               
the Fishermen's Fund. That doesn't  change under this bill, which                                                               
has an  indeterminate fiscal  note from  the Department  of Labor                                                               
and Workforce Development.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:43:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEDMAN asked  if the  commercial  fishermen would  fall                                                               
into the category of six-pack license requirements.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BERG  replied  that  they  would have  to  have  a  six-pack                                                               
license, be enrolled  in the random drug testing  program and the                                                               
vessel  would have  to be  documented  for coastwise  as well  as                                                               
fishery type 1  personal floatation devices - in  addition to the                                                               
survival suits that are required on commercial boats.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:44:38 PM                                                                                                                    
PAUL   SHADURA,   President,   Kenai   Fishermen's   Association,                                                               
supported HB  26. Its approach  is reasonable  and adds a  lot of                                                               
dynamics  to  the  commercial  fishing   industry.  It  offers  a                                                               
survivalist type of  experience for those who  are interested and                                                               
would probably  not affect any other  users in any way.  A lot of                                                               
people have family  members come up and visit  them and currently                                                               
hiring them for a couple of days is prohibitively expensive.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:46:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHRIS  CONDOR, Board  Member,  Juneau  Charter Boat  Association,                                                               
opposed HB 26,  because it has all kinds of  holes and dangers in                                                               
it for tourists, especially.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     You're going  to put  people who have  never been  on a                                                                    
     boat out in these type  of seas. Despite all the safety                                                                    
     precautions  a charter  boat  has, they're  [commercial                                                                    
     boats] in  much more dangerous situations....  In those                                                                    
     seas  something   is  going  to  happen....   In  these                                                                    
     disclaimers  when  they   talk  about  these  releases,                                                                    
     they're  not worth  the paper  they're written  on when                                                                    
     you talk to a lawyer about them....                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     If someone gets  into a problem out  there, we're going                                                                    
     to have a  real bad PR problem about that.  You can see                                                                    
     it any time...we  lose a tourist. It's real  bad PR for                                                                    
     Alaska.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Furthermore,  he  said the  charter  boat  license and  insurance                                                               
requirements would be prohibitive.  Another consideration was how                                                               
enforcement  would be  conducted  and he  surmised  that a  Coast                                                               
Guard person  would have to  board each  vessel to check  out the                                                               
people  on it.  He also  thought it  was an  unfair bill  for the                                                               
charter fleet saying:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     If  you  want  to  be  a  commercial  fisherman,  be  a                                                                    
     commercial  fisherman.  If you  want  to  be a  charter                                                                    
     fisherman, be a charter boat  fisherman. If you want to                                                                    
     do  both,  that's fine  too,  but  you  have to  do  it                                                                    
     separately, not  combined. I can't  sell my  catch. The                                                                    
     commercial fleet  would never allow me  to do something                                                                    
     like that. It's just not fair.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:50:41 PM                                                                                                                    
JACK CADIGAN,  Captain, M/V CADIGAN, suggested  amending the bill                                                               
to  address   licensing  short-term  people  who   would  not  be                                                               
compensated on commercial boats.  Because of the unusual activity                                                               
of taking  tourists out, commercial  boats should be  required to                                                               
display  an   appropriate  decal,  which  would   be  similar  or                                                               
identical to that of charter  boat operators, so that enforcement                                                               
doesn't necessarily have to board the vessels.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. CADIGAN pointed  out a the further issue of  whether the fish                                                               
would  be counted  as sport  or commercial  fish allocations  and                                                               
whether the tourist passengers would  be allowed to keep any fish                                                               
caught without having to purchase them  via a fish ticket. In any                                                               
case, he  asked how the  catch would be identified  and allocated                                                               
under current regulations.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He suggested  requiring vessels operating under  the authority of                                                               
this legislation to comply with  all applicable regulations under                                                               
CFR  and  with  all  Alaska  licensing  requirements  apropos  to                                                               
sportfishing  guides and  sportfishing  business licenses  unless                                                               
non of  the personnel who  are acting  as crewmembers are  in any                                                               
sort of a paid status.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:55:05 PM                                                                                                                    
RICK  BIERMAN, Whaleside  Lodge, Shelter  Island, said  last year                                                               
the Legislature  passed comprehensive  regulations on  the guided                                                               
sport  fishing  industry  regarding vessel  safety  and  operator                                                               
responsibility.  Now  it  is  proposing to  put  his  clients  on                                                               
commercial fishing  boats without  the same  safeguards contained                                                               
in those regulations. He said a  commercial fishing boat is a far                                                               
more dangerous environment  than a charter boat.  The Coast Guard                                                               
also  stated  that  enforcement isn't  practical  unless  vessels                                                               
somehow indicate they  have passengers for hire  and he suggested                                                               
requiring vessels  to carry a  prominent sticker  that identifies                                                               
them as carrying tourists.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:57:36 PM                                                                                                                    
He was  also concerned that since  this bill creates a  whole new                                                               
fishing experience in Alaska, his  clients will now have a choice                                                               
to come  to his lodge  and be restricted  to three king  salmon a                                                               
year,  bag, possession  and  gear  limits or  they  could rent  a                                                               
commercial vessel and catch as many  fish as they want. "There is                                                               
nothing in  this bill that says  the operator of the  vessels can                                                               
include those  fish in the  price of the adventure."  He insisted                                                               
that  the  tourists should  have  to  buy  the fish  they  catch;                                                               
otherwise  they would  be  circumventing  sport regulations  that                                                               
happen to be good regulations.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:59:11 PM                                                                                                                    
Further,  he said  the  people  who use  this  license should  be                                                               
required to prove they have liability insurance.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:59:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DYSON asked who from  the marine insurance industry could                                                               
comment  on  lines of  liability  protection  for the  short-term                                                               
people.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BIERMAN  replied that he  didn't know of anyone  locally, but                                                               
Charter Lakes Insurance Company in  St. Paul writes 50 percent of                                                               
the liability for charter boats.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WAGONER commented  that he  looked at  this bill  from the                                                               
commercial point  of view  and ran  away from  it because  of the                                                               
liability and insurance he would be required to have.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:01:21 PM                                                                                                                    
JERRY  MCCUNE,  United  Fishermen  of Alaska,  supported  HB  26.                                                               
However  there were  some misconceptions  he  wanted to  clarify.                                                               
Commercial fishermen  already need to  have most things  on board                                                               
already and are required to  carry liability between $300,000 and                                                               
$1 million  for crew.  Some of his  members have  gillnetters and                                                               
they come to town, take their  net off, take two or three clients                                                               
out and already  have the same equipment a charter  boat does. He                                                               
did agree that  commercial vessels being used  for charter should                                                               
be readily identifiable as such.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:04:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  asked how  he would  address the  allocation issue                                                               
for guests.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MCCUNE answered:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     If you  were a  commercial vessel  and you  were taking                                                                    
     people  out  for  the commercial  experience,  which  I                                                                    
     haven't  a whole  lot  of  this going  on  - myself,  I                                                                    
     haven't had  any requests  for this.  You're commercial                                                                    
     fishing;  you've   got  to  have  all   the  commercial                                                                    
     permits, all the  other charter stuff to  go along with                                                                    
     it.  You've got  to  have your  card;  they gotta  have                                                                    
     their  crew  licenses  and  that would  go  on  a  fish                                                                    
     ticket....  You  deliver,  you've  gotta  have  a  fish                                                                    
     ticket. It's just like a commercial fishing boat.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Now if you take some of  the fish and give them to your                                                                    
     clients, which  is perfectly legal  also, you  could do                                                                    
     that. But any fish delivered to  a tender has to have a                                                                    
     fish ticket  and it's going  to go down  as commercial,                                                                    
     not sport.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WAGONER related  that in  his  fishery halibut  has to  be                                                               
marked as "retained catch" and must come off your IFQ.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  remarked that tourists  are limited to  three king                                                               
salmon per year, but a person  on a commercial boat could take 10                                                               
kings, for instance, have them smoked and take them home.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MCCUNE replied  that as  a commercial  fisherman, he  has to                                                               
report all the kings he catches,  even the ones he's taking home,                                                               
so ADF&G has an accurate count of fish.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON repeated  that his point is that a  person hiring a                                                               
charter boat  is limited  to taking three  kings for  the season,                                                               
but if he goes  out on a commercial troller he  could and take 10                                                               
kings.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:10:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  WAGONER said  he understands  this is  to give  people the                                                               
experience  of being  on a  commercial boat  and he,  personally,                                                               
doesn't  give his  crew  king  salmon or  halibut.  If this  goes                                                               
through, that  is an allocation issue  and should be taken  up by                                                               
the Board of Fisheries.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:11:11 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON responded  that a  person may  expect to  get some                                                               
fish out of  the commercial experience. It could even  be used as                                                               
a marketing tool.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER acknowledged that would  be an issue, but the Board                                                               
of Fisheries was the proper forum to set policy.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     I think if  we do anything, if this  bill goes forward,                                                                    
     I think we  want to make the intent  of the Legislature                                                                    
     - this  is not a  meat fishery.  We are not  creating a                                                                    
     meat fishery. It's real dangerous when we do that.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:12:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER said he would hold  the bill and get input from the                                                               
insurance industry and the Board of Fisheries.                                                                                  

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